6.17.2. The 'Repress' tag can be used when used on the release itself, or the release is referred to as a repress by the artist, label, or other official sources. You can also use the tag when you can state a good reason for doing so in the release and / or submission notes. A repress must originate from the original master disc, and the term is only applied to formats that are stamped or pressed out, such as vinyl and CD. The 'Reissue' tag can be used in other circumstances, see the guideline for the correct usage of that tag. 'Reissue' and 'Repress' can be used together.
Talking vinyl here:
In order to originate from the same master, major differences in regard to runouts between original and repress are excluded, I suppose?
IOW, how can I tell whether or not two pressings originate from the same master?
Vinyl repress: usually the same stamper, i.e same runouts. Represses are done in a relatively short time span after the initial release (like two years) because pressing plants will only keep the stampers for a limited time (usually two years).
It gets tricky with releases that were pressed in large quantities, especially stuff from the 70's/80's where several stampers exist.
Another specialty is represses done by a different plant (because the original one shut down for example). Those will usually have the original runout crossed out and additional runout information hand written but these are quite rare exceptions.
HM-2
Vinyl repress: usually the same stamper, i.e same runouts.
My thinking was, there has do be at least a slight difference regarding the stamper/runouts. If both are the same, how can I tell a repress from an original at all?
Another question is, can a Repress come with differences in artwork (i.e. just the colour of the label - not the fine print), or would that qualify for a Reissue instead?
hatfulofelt
Is it possible that colour variations may have existed even on the original pressing?
Not at all. The first press came with grey labels whereas the second run from the following year had red labels. That's the only difference between both versions.
Personally I think this is to be considered a Reissue case, but wanted to have some more opinions on this.
Pressings and repressing sourced from 1 master can have major differences in the etching info:
Each master lacquer produces 1 Father/Matrix set. The lacquer will receive some etching info.
Each Father/Matrix set will produce (usually) up to 6 Mother sets. Each of the Mother disks will usually receive more etchings, so already we have the possibility of 6 different etching variations.
Each Mother disk set will produce (usually) up to 6 Stamper sets. Each time a stamper set is made from a Mother set, the is also the possibility of the Mother disk being etched with additional info before each stamper is made from it, so we now have the possibility of 36 etching variations for pressings sourced from just one master lacquer.
The Mother sets and the Stamper sets can sometimes be mixed and matched, producing even more etching variations as well...
Compare the deeper/heavier etchings (as those will have been etched into the lacquer), if they are the same, then both pressings are from the same master lacquer.
djindio
Pressings and repressing sourced from 1 master can have major differences in the etching info
djindio
Compare the deeper/heavier etchings (as those will have been etched into the lacquer), if they are the same, then both pressings are from the same master lacquer.
So, simply put, there have to be at least some similarities in regard to etchings (talking about those deeper/heavier ones you mention - originating from the lacquer). Thus, any lack of such similarities would imply the second run to be a reissue?
yuhann
My thinking was, there has do be at least a slight difference regarding the stamper/runouts. If both are the same, how can I tell a repress from an original at all?
If it was done in the same plant and there were no changes on the center label or other artwork, chances are you won't be able to tell. Usually there are slight differences with represses, be it print quality of the sleeves or what else. Then again it's sometimes next to impossible to determine which pressing is what if everything is identical.
djindio is right about the different mother plates, however in this day and age it is rather unlikely to produce that amount when regular pressing quantities went down to 500 or less with only a very few releases going into the 1000's.
As far as the depper etching part goes, it really depends on the record. Obviously the stamper will be worn out more towards the end of a run, so etching from the first couple records will naturally be deeper than those of the last couple. It all comes down to pressing quantities. Generally a stamper is good for 1000 copies as a rule of thumb.
yuhann
So, simply put, there have to be at least some similarities in regard to etchings (talking about those deeper/heavier ones you mention - originating from the lacquer).
For major labels (80's 90's etc...) that is usually the case yes.
yuhann
Thus, any lack of such similarities would imply the second run to be a reissue?
If we are sure that we are talking about pressings all from the same pressing plant, then most likely. It should be noted that back in pre-2000 eras, there is a high probability that there is more than one 'original pressing' usually due to more than one pressing plant being used to produce the same release in different parts of the country. Sometimes all share a single lacquer as a source, other times more than one lacquer is cut for initial pressing runs, usually depending on projected album sales.
HM-2
Obviously the stamper will be worn out more towards the end of a run, so etching from the first couple records will naturally be deeper than those of the last couple.
Deeper etchings, as in deeper than the etchings added to the Mother discs, as in the difference between Lacquer etchings vs Mother disc etchings...
Also, you're usually only going to see the sort of significantly warn-out / faded etchings (and grooves) that you describe if they pushed the pressing run to more like 1200 records pressed per stamper set, which is something that some pressing plants used to do.
HM-2
in this day and age it is rather unlikely to produce that amount when regular pressing quantities went down to 500 or less with only a very few releases going into the 1000's.
Most common these days they simply make stampers directly from the lacquer, skipping the Father/Matrix step and the Mother disc step all together, limiting the number records sourced from the 1 master lacquer disc to 800 ~ 1200... again all depending on the pressing plant.
HM-2
however in this day and age it is rather unlikely to produce that amount when regular pressing quantities went down to 500 or less with only a very few releases going into the 1000's.
My example dates from the mid-1970s, and the first run was 2000 (!) copies, likely released in November 1975. These were the originals that came with grey labels.
And this is what the runouts of the first press look like:
Matrix / Runout (Runout A - stamped): OBSCURE•3•A2
Matrix / Runout (Runout B - stamped): OBSCURE•3•B2
Matrix / Runout (Runout A - etched): > 2
Matrix / Runout (Runout B - etched): > 1
